In the ever-evolving world of Non-Destructive Testing (NDT), few names resonate as profoundly as Mr. Satish Udpa's. A pioneer whose journey spans over four decades, he has not only contributed to groundbreaking research but also shaped the very fabric of the NDT community. From his early days at Colorado State University to his influential roles at Michigan State University, Mr. Udpa's remarkable career has been defined by a relentless pursuit of excellence and an unwavering commitment to integrity.
In this exclusive interview, we delve into his extraordinary path, from accidental entry into the NDT field to becoming a leading force in advancing NDE technologies. His insights into the future of NDT, the challenges the industry faces, and the role of emerging technologies like AI offer invaluable guidance to the next generation of professionals.
Join us as we explore the incredible journey of a man whose contributions have not only shaped the NDT landscape but have also inspired countless individuals across academia and industry.
Mr. Udpa, welcome to OnestopNDT! It’s truly an honour to have you with us today. Your contributions to NDT and academia have inspired countless professionals, and we’re thrilled to delve into your remarkable journey. What drew you to the NDT industry? Was there a specific moment or event that sparked your passion for this field?
My entry into the field of NDE was purely an accident. I was working in India in 1978 when I decided to broaden my horizons by pursuing postgraduate studies. I applied for admission to MS programs in the U.S. and it was my good fortune that an eminent NDE scientist and engineer, Professor William Lord at Colorado State University, chose to offer admission into the MSEE program at the University. I was financially supported by Professor Lord on research grants to pursue research in electromagnetic methods of NDE. A few months into the program, I developed a strong affinity for the subject and chose to continue on in the field. I continued on to be mentored by Professor Lord through my Ph.D. program in the field of eddy current NDE. Forty-six years later, I continue to be fascinated by the subject.
… you’ve held distinguished titles such as University President Emeritus and University Distinguished Professor Emeritus at Michigan State University. What were the pivotal moments that defined your path to these remarkable achievements?
My life and career have been punctuated by a series of professional accidents. In just about every case, I was at the right place at the right time. The only constant throughout my career has been an almost compulsive commitment to integrity and to do the best possible job under the circumstances. My father’s admonition to be the best cobbler, if one is a cobbler, helped me along the way. I also enjoyed the benefit of having good mentors at every stage of my career. Every job, starting from the position of a technician at Electronics Corporation of India (ECIL) to my position as the Interim President of a very large University, was equally important and deserved my highest level of commitment and care.
… looking back, is there a particular project or piece of research in NDT that stands out as your proudest achievement? What made it so meaningful to you?
At ECIL, I was responsible for the design and development of safety equipment such as foot monitors which were designed to measure/detect any radioactive material that could accidentally get embedded in the sole of shoes used by personnel working in nuclear power plants. We had inherited a Canadian design which measured any radioactivity present in the sole of the shoe and set off an alarm when the measure level exceeded a preset threshold. This caused problems because fluctuating levels of ambient radiation in the plant often exceeded the preset threshold, setting off the alarm. Workers were frustrated because these false alarms needlessly forced them to go through unnecessary scrubbing at the end of their work shift, thereby elongating their workday. I came up with a design that measured the ambient radiation levels when the test equipment was not in use and used a measure of the variance of the ambient radiation level to set the threshold level. False alarms were reduced and the workers in the power plant could presumably go home sooner. The satisfaction of having a positive impact on the lives of people was very rewarding.
My Master’s thesis work was focused on the development of a phenomenological numerical model characterizing residual magnetism in ferromagnetic materials. It was an original idea that had never been proposed before. Over the years I have also come up with many seminal ideas such as the ability to render NDE signals invariant to such things as lift-off, ambient conditions and material property variations. These activities were, again, a great source of satisfaction.
One of my great sources of satisfaction comes from having graduated several M.S. and Ph.D. students in NDE related areas. The students have gone on to serve in industry and academia, thereby multiplying the impact of my career.
… every industry faces its share of hurdles. In your view, what are the biggest challenges in NDT today, and how can we, as a community, address them together?
NDE relies on several physical phenomena and hence any progress we make is inextricably linked to a sound and deep understanding of the physics of these physical phenomena. We use both classical and numerical tools (forward models) to gain a deeper understanding of the physical factors that contribute to the signal that an operator sees on the screen. We also use these tools to optimize the design of sensors and test conditions. Although it is difficult to predict the future, it doesn’t take a leap of imagination to see new developments in computing and artificial intelligence (AI) (deep learning tools, for instance) having an impact on how we transact our business. We also rely on the use of tools such as signal processing and pattern recognition to interpret the signals (inverse problems) that we elicit from our sensors. These fields are in turn being impacted by developments in computing and AI (deep learning, for example). Our challenge is to ensure we have an adequate number of people in the discipline who have a reasonable level of mastery of these areas to move the field forward. We need to have a critical mass of talent to enable progress and stay relevant as a discipline.
Another significant area is related to instrumentation. It represents one of the larger segments of the industry besides services. Here we are dealing with growing sophistication of the integrated circuit (both analog and digital) industry and the compaction of circuitry. What used to take a large circuit board now needs a single chip. IoT (Internet of Things) has become a commonplace term, leading to the untethering of devices. The industry is witnessing a confluence of growth spurts in the communications, computing, AI (large language model based, for instance) and other related technologies. Again, we need to have a critical mass of talent to enable progress and stay relevant as a discipline.
Lastly, the manufacturing industry is dealing with several new technologies. Components built using additive manufacturing technologies and composite materials very often require new different inspection methods. New materials that have emerged in recent years require new ways of inspection. Again, we need to have a critical mass of talent to enable progress and stay relevant as a discipline.
… the buzz around AI and machine learning is hard to ignore. How do you envision these technologies transforming the NDT landscape in the next decade?
As I indicated earlier, AI will have a profound impact on how we address both forward and inverse problems. We have to be careful in using the term AI, because it is often used in an all- encompassing form. I see us using deep learning (a form of AI) as a tool for addressing both forward and inverse problems. I see AI systems based on Large Language Models (LLMs) being used to search large data bases for prior results, approaches to inspection and learning from successful NDE work done before. I also foresee LLM based AI being used for instrumentation interfaces, education & training, and even identifying the best possible NDE method for a given problem. Every practitioner will be in a position of having the best inanimate expert and guide on her/his side to assist her/him.
It is also important to note that other technologies, besides AI are going to have a significant impact on the field. Visualization tools such as Virtual Reality (VR) and Augmented Reality (AR) are enabling easier digestion of data by operators. Work going on standardization of data formats will also have an impact on the field.
… sustainability is a global priority. In what ways do you see NDT playing a pivotal role in advancing energy efficiency and infrastructure sustainability?
NDE and sustainability go hand-in-hand. NDE is often used as a quality control tool in the manufacturing sector for ensuring the manufactured components are in conformity with specifications. NDE methods used in real time as a process control tool can reduce waste by minimizing the number of components failing to meet specifications. This contributes to minimization of waste and improvements in energy efficiency. The idea of “Retirement for Cause” is another concept that can contribute to minimization of waste and environmental sustainability. The concept calls for replacing a component only if nondestructive inspection reveals the component is at the end of its useful life rather than replacing it at preset intervals. The field of nondestructive evaluation has a great role to play in furthering the cause of sustainability.
… interdisciplinary collaboration often sparks innovation. Have you witnessed any exciting cross-industry partnerships that advanced NDT technology? What role do you think such collaborations will play in the future?
NDE is inherently an interdisciplinary field which draws upon expertise in multiple disciplines. Let’s take the example of Ultrasonic Testing (UT). Traditionally, people with backgrounds in physics and mechanical engineering have worked in the field since it involves familiarity with wave propagation in elastic solids. However, ultrasonic testing involves measurement using instruments that are typically designed by electrical/electronic engineers. Finally, analysis of the data requires people familiar with the concepts of signal processing and pattern recognition.
Optimization of the test set-up is often done using digital twins (forward models) that require deep knowledge of mathematics. An interdisciplinary team that brings together experts from all the disciplines is best equipped to solve problems. NDE is truly an interdisciplinary field and cross-industry collaboration is vital for its success..
Although prognostication is difficult, I expect these collaborations to grow. The use of AI, VR and AR will inevitably demand collaboration, bringing people from computer science and other disciplines into the field.
… as a seasoned leader, you’ve likely had to make tough decisions. What values and principles have consistently guided your leadership approach?
Maintaining integrity in one’s dealings is critically important, particularly when the welfare and safety of others are involved. As NDE practitioners, it is vital that our actions be guided by a fierce loyalty to truth since it affects the health and safety of society at large. Another important consideration is loyalty – loyalty to truth, loyalty to one’s colleagues and friends, and loyalty to one’s community and society.
… for young professionals aspiring to leave their mark on NDT, what advice would you offer? Are there specific skills or mindsets they should cultivate?
Besides integrity and loyalty, one has to have an eternal sense of curiosity about the world in general. People with curiosity, drive, and tenacity can accomplish a lot, particularly when their actions are seasoned with integrity. Although actions undertaken with integrity may lead to short-term losses, such actions in the long-term lead to growth and success.
… standardization is key to safety and reliability. How can the NDT community work towards establishing more unified global practices?
The NDE community has been woefully inadequate in developing standards with regard to practices, personnel and data exchange standards. Although ASNT and other organizations have worked hard to develop standards, a lot of work needs to be done. This is important to ensure personnel mobility, quality control and data management/interpretation. It is time to see major professional societies such as ASNT, ISNT and others come together in the next few years to address the issue for the good of the profession and community.
… diversity fuels innovation. How can the NDT field become more inclusive and attract talent from underrepresented groups?
Diversity does fuel innovation. Countless instances have been reported where diversity of thought, backgrounds and gender have made a big difference in the overall outcome. I have seen this to be true in my own laboratory. When students coming from different countries with a good mix of genders work on a project, sparks fly with regard to solutions and new ideas.
Innovation thrives in an environment that celebrates diversity.
One of the ways we can promote diversity is to expose students in the middle and high schools to the wonders of science and technology. It is also vital for us to encourage popular media in all forms (social media, TV, Internet, print media, etc.) to promote science by embedding scientific themes in their programs.
… throughout your career, who or what has been your greatest source of inspiration? How has it influenced your work?
I have been very fortunate at every stage of my career in having mentors who helped me navigate and thrive along the way. These mentors served as role models both in the way they worked, behaved and overcame challenges. I am truly indebted to them.
… fast forward 20 years – what do you envision for the future of NDT? Are there trends or technologies you believe will redefine the industry?
It is very difficult to predict the future and we can only make educated guesses based on the current state-of-the-art and industry trends.
Quantum Computing and other computational platforms together with AI will offer unprecedented ability to process large amounts of data in the future. This will encourage the development of NDE probes that use multiple types of sensors (modalities) and employ robust data fusion techniques for integrating the information. Eddy Current probes, for instance, may employ an ultrasonic transducer that continually measures lift-off, thereby enabling compensation for variations in the lift-off. Most of the signal processing circuitry including A/D conversion will be done in situ within the probe, thereby improving SNR and performance. In addition, powerful computational platforms will allow us to build digital twins that mirror reality. Real time inversion of data will be commonplace. Edge computing will contribute greatly to performance, particularly in large applications.
In addition, the concept of Design for Inspectability will take root. This would mean components would be designed not only on the basis of their ability to withstand their expected mechanical loads but also on the basis of our ability to inspect the part during its use easily.
… innovation is the lifeblood of progress. What areas of NDT do you think are ripe for disruptive ideas, and what advice would you give to aspiring entrepreneurs looking to enter this space?
Every area of NDE is ripe for disruptive ideas, and no area is immune to the winds of change. We are a creative species and we will constantly explore new areas and new approaches.
… when you’re not immersed in the world of NDT, how do you recharge? Do you have any hobbies or interests that help you find balance? Now, let’s step outside the professional sphere for a moment. What hobbies or activities help you recharge and bring balance to your life? Any unexpected passions you’d like to share?
I read a lot and listen to classical music (Carnatic, Hindustani and Western) to recharge. My wife and I enjoy the theater. In addition, we like to travel. We have travelled to well over 50 countries and I suspect the number will increase in the years to come.
.. the NDT industry is not without its challenges. What do you see as the major hurdles facing the industry today, and how can we collectively overcome them to drive progress?
Our biggest challenge is to make sure we are able to attract the best and brightest to the profession in the years to come. Failure to do so will cost us dearly. Our second challenge is related to standardization. We have done a poor job in this area and our growth will be limited if we fail to address this issue.
